Zemill
Spoken Word Artist, Poet & Creator of the Po-Jazz Experience 

Sandeep Kulkarni (00:02.158)

Today's guest is Zemill, a Telly Award-winning artist, author, poet, and performer whose work blends smooth jazz, R&B, neo-soul, blues, and spoken word into what he calls "Poe-Jazz."

Suraaj Parab (00:18.842)

Welcome Zemill to Artist Conversation.

Zemill (00:22.127)

Thank you so very, very much guys for having me. It's a real honor to be here tonight. Shout out to Desiree L. PR for making sure she hooks us up and makes this thing happen.

Sandeep Kulkarni (00:38.126)

Absolutely, absolutely. We're so happy to have you and talk to you. Zemill, jumping right in, I want to talk to you about the origin of everything and finding your voice. I was going through a lot of your stuff—your bio, the website, and everything—pretty interesting reads over there. In fact, I was there yesterday, last week, and also today as well. You said you've been writing poems and songs all your life, but really began pursuing the arts more fully about, let's say, 15 years ago. What finally made that inner calling louder than everything else?

Zemill (01:23.073)

Very good question to start out with. I was in corporate America and they were looking at restructuring. I had been with the company at that time for 20 years—the largest transportation company in the world. They were talking about restructuring, basically downsizing, and they wanted to start with the senior people first. Then we had to be chosen to stay with the company. I was one of the people who was fortunate enough to not be asked to leave, shall we say. I stayed.

But what happened in that moment was I started thinking about other people in this company controlling my destiny, controlling my life, and how I felt when I got the word that I could possibly lose my job and everything that I was working for and working towards would end. A light came on and something said to me—and I said to myself—it's time. I had written thousands of poems, thousands of songs, and had been writing since I was six years old, but had never professionally done anything with it. When that moment happened, I decided to say, "My fate is my own, and I have to trust and start using the gift."

I did this quote that says, "Your gift is your lift." I started thinking about taking the music, the poetry, the songs, and the ability to speak, and saying, "Okay, now it's time to use that." The options are mine and not totally rested upon or dependent upon what someone else decides they want to do with my future. That was the precursor to me stepping off into the jazz.

Sandeep Kulkarni (03:17.218)

That is amazing. And 20 years at a company... let me ask you, I'm sure you made that decision and went through all these emotions and thoughts in your head, but was it difficult still to kind of say no to that corporate job and be like, "Yeah, it's time"?

Zemill (03:35.605)

No, you know, I wasn't... let me say something about that. I wasn't one of those people that said, "I heard this voice in the wilderness or from the burning bush say, 'Okay, quit your job.'" So it wasn't in my mind because I had been around a lot of people, a lot of musicians, who left and wanted to be independent. But I had invested a lot of things in the music, in the house, and it was just at the very beginning of all of that.

I said, again to myself, that I needed a way to support myself until my gift or my talent could support me. Therefore, it was not difficult to stay. It just made me understand that there was a time, and there was going to be a barometer—a clock—on how long I would stay so that when I did leave, I left on my own terms.

Sandeep Kulkarni (04:34.702)

Got it. That's amazing. I'm glad you could do that because a lot of people are not able to. It also goes to show, if I may, I think you're good at planning the whole thing.

Zemill (04:48.849)

Yeah, you know what? That skill—the organizational skill, the practical side, the business side, and the creative side—has been a blessing, actually. I've got to tell you, man, that's just a blessing. In order to do what I have done... I have been in management for most of my 40 years. I ended up being there for 39 years and eight months, which is 40 years. I was on the management team and I was a training manager. Planning and making sure everything had a purpose, a strategy, an action plan, and all of those things was something that I've been doing all of my life.

Suraaj Parab (05:33.35)

Wow, 40 years. You spent nearly four decades in corporate America before fully stepping into this chapter of music. What did that long road teach you about timing, purpose, and trusting yourself later in life?

Zemill (05:54.613)

Another good question. The job, because it was so driven by results, you got graded every single year. You got a report card every single year. What it did was say, number one, you have to make sure that you always prepare yourself. Number two, you have to have a good plan. It made me understand the strategic way of going about accomplishing your goal.

That is the role that it played, and I used it to my benefit. I took that part of what I do and incorporated that into what I do with Zemill's Poe-Jazz Experience. That's how they all tie together. I learned and grew from the job, and I took things that I did from the job into what I do with my jazz experience.

Sandeep Kulkarni (06:55.358)

Yeah, that makes sense. You can apply all those learnings from corporate America to everything, especially the business side of things. That should come to you pretty easily, right?

Zemill (07:09.585)

Absolutely, absolutely. And it did. Again, I used it. I think that everything in life that we go through—every juncture, every journey, every triumph, every fall—is a learning experience. If you are on a job or you're involved with something for 40 years or so, yeah, you're going to learn some things just by accident, even if you don't try. So, I took a lot with me when I left.

Sandeep Kulkarni (07:46.146)

Talking about taking a lot with you when you left, you invented your own lane. You created your own lane by blending smooth jazz, smooth R&B, neo-soul, blues, and spoken word into "Poe-Jazz." When did you realize you weren't just making songs, you were building an entirely new space for yourself?

Zemill (08:16.593)

Oh man, you guys are killing it on the questions because that is something I've never heard phrased that way, and I've done a lot of interviews. The question posed in that way is an excellent question.

I knew it was different because I was a part of The Black Academy of Arts and Letters here in Dallas, with CEO Curtis King. He has a multi-Emmy Award-winning organization and hosted what he called a Poets and Jazz series. I was with them for a long time. When I transitioned, looking at what I learned through the Poets and Jazz series and working with that CEO, I learned the lesson of organization and what it takes to actually put together a show.

I saw what other poets were doing, and I saw the fact that I was taking the music—because there's spoken word, which is the speaking of a spoken word on a daily basis—and I was seeing how some people did the spoken word and some people did the music. I said to myself, "If I combine and fuse the two, it seems like a natural marriage." That's when I started seeing people gravitating to the music with the spoken word.

It goes back way before me. Langston Hughes, one of the greatest poets, writers, and authors of all time, started mixing and fusing jazz and poetry many, many years ago. But one of the things that stood out to me was that people started appreciating the sound and the arrangements, because a lot of the poems turned into songs, and some of the songs turned into poems. Blending it together allowed me to say, "Hmm, I have something different here." Several reporters and people who started following me began saying, "You have created your own lane because no one does it the way you do it." There are people who add music to poetry and vice versa, but not at the level of musical arrangements that I do.

Sandeep Kulkarni (11:02.102)

Interesting. Was that really cool to hear from those people? Did it give you that sense of, "I'm doing something right"?

Zemill (11:09.473)

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Because as you mentioned earlier, that was not something that I came up with initially or set out to do. To be perfectly honest with you—and I don't know if I've ever said this—I didn't set out to start my own lane. It kind of evolved.

The people who were around me and following me—people in the music industry, producers, writers, and reporters—were the ones who started saying, "There's something different about this jazz. There's something different about Zemill." That gave it more relevance and more credence because it's not something I boasted about. This came from the lips, minds, and pens of other people. I thought that was a phenomenal thing, and I'm humbled by that.

Suraaj Parab (12:18.67)

That's wonderful. A lot of genre fusion can feel experimental, but your work sounds deeply intentional. What does Poe-Jazz allow you to express that no single genre could hold on its own?

Zemill (12:40.749)

Man, yeah, I'm giving you a hundred for the night for your questions. What Poe-Jazz allows me to do—the latitude that it allows—is through the work of an incredible producer, arranger, and partner in music. His name is Joe McCray, Joe B. McCray. Joe can take a note that I make and turn it into a symphony. He's that creative, that good on the piano, and "beast mode" on all music. He can write, arrange, sing, and do all those things.

Joe hears my melody and he turns that melody into a song, into an arrangement. Then what makes it all gel is the ability to speak clearly about love, social consciousness, intimacy, sensuality, romance, and life as we see it on a daily basis. Poe-Jazz allows us the latitude to not be pinned or pigeonholed into one genre or one lane where people say, "Oh, they're just jazz." No, we're not, because it's jazz, it's R&B, and it allows us to do all of them, including gospel. So, great question.

Sandeep Kulkarni (14:14.158)

That is so cool. Going through your bio, Zemill, there is so much interesting stuff to read there. You mentioned Langston Hughes—the American poet, social activist, and one of the early innovators of jazz poetry—as a major inspiration. What is it about the marriage of jazz and poetry that feels so alive and necessary to you today?

Zemill (14:41.841)

Music is a universal language, right? You hear it and you've heard it before. There are people who like poetry, and there are people who do not get poetry; it can be a niche, just like jazz is a niche. But when you take music as a universal language and you marry it to an inspirational word, a theme, a thought, or a ballad, it gives it a different feeling.

The mood and feel of jazz is a perfect combination with poetry and words to allow a connection between the audience and the people you're reaching. You want to touch them rhythmically, musically, spiritually, and intellectually. Marrying the music allows it to act like a vehicle, right? The words are the passenger, and the music—the jazz—is the vehicle.

Sandeep Kulkarni (15:55.512)

"The words are the passenger." I like the way you said that. I was trying to visualize it as you were speaking.

Zemill (16:08.241)

I'm going to write that down! I'm going to have to make sure we tape this so when you get it, I can hear it back, because that just came to me just like that. I won't remember it later!

Sandeep Kulkarni (16:18.846)

It's recorded now, so it's there. No, but this is so amazing—what you said about how the music side of jazz and the spoken word side of poetry can come together. You've got me thinking now about something I've been trying to do. Thank you for that.

Zemill (16:45.334)

Hey, we inspire each other. Creative people inspire each other; that's what we do.

Suraaj Parab (16:49.982)

That's wonderful. Talking about this inspiration part, how did you get introduced to poetry and jazz at an early age? Were you learning any instruments in your childhood that got you interested in jazz and, eventually, writing poetry?

Zemill (17:12.229)

Actually, what happened was I was six years old and in the first grade. My teacher, Miss Gillings, asked me if I would be interested in writing a poem for a city-wide poetry contest. Lo and behold, I entered the contest and won. That was... well, I won't even tell you the year, just know it was decades and decades ago! I was in the first grade, and it helped me recognize the gift.

The creativity and music come from my father's side of the family. They were part of a festival many years ago and had a hit song back in the early sixties called "Carl, You're Going to Make It." So, I inherited that. The strength, the wisdom, and the drive to pursue the gift came from my mother, who worked hard every day to raise three boys.

But the actual poetry itself, the music itself, and the wanting to do it was all driven by the desire, understanding, and realizing that there was a gift there. Once I realized there was a gift and saw that words could actually have meaning and move people, it inspired me to pursue it and be the very best I could be at it.

Sandeep Kulkarni (18:56.782)

Really nice, really interesting. I'm trying to guess the year now!

Zemill (19:09.268)

It's long, long, long before you were born. Let me just say it was many, many moons ago.

Suraaj Parab (19:23.582)

Wow, super, super. Zemill, you said that you love to talk about how poetry and the spoken word relate to life, love, and the current social climate. What do these words let you say in this moment that everyday conversation often fails to reach?

Zemill (19:47.151)

Ooh, good one. I start most days with this poem:

Every morning when I wake,

I know I'm blessed for goodness' sake.

The day is mine for me to make,

For only I can walk through that gate.

Of broken dreams of love and hate,

The meter is running, drive is my rate.

So much to do, so much at stake,

Little time for honey, no time for cake.

And when I reach the top, I shall not forsake

Loved ones who envisioned I could be great.

I will look back on the memories and start a new slate,

Thankful for the man my God did create.

Sandeep Kulkarni (20:27.928)

Beautiful. That's beautiful. In India, we say "Wah," which means amazing or wow when someone recites something.

Zemill (20:31.675)

Wah. I love that. I'm going to have to remember that; you learn something new every day.

To answer your question: when you look at love, what's happening with society, and the social consciousness, poetry is the language of expression. In these times and the social climate we're in, poetry speaks the truth about what's happening in a creative, artistic way. It allows you to say... you know, we say we don't understand the wars or what they're for. We really do understand what they are and what they're for, but we may fail to want to say the truth about why it's actually happening.

When you take those words and look at poetry, you have a way of explaining the truth. From an intellectual standpoint, regular conversation may only reach a surface or tertiary level of understanding for some people. But poetry allows you to speak to it—whether it's love, social consciousness, or whatever that thing is—in a way that stimulates thought. I think that's what poetry allows you to do in this day and time, in a manner that regular talking just can't articulate to raise awareness and attention.

Sandeep Kulkarni (22:37.998)

Really interesting. I'm trying to think... when you write from that place, speaking to life, struggle, hope, and truth, do you feel more like a storyteller, a witness, or a messenger?

Zemill (23:02.769)

Both. Good question. You feel like both, because there is a story to be told in every word, every song, and every poem. If you follow it... sometimes we can get too deep as poets. If you don't really understand what I'm saying, then what message did I deliver? But I think it's both. Because you have the versatility and the latitude to express it artistically, it allows you to convey it in a very special and unique kind of way.

Sandeep Kulkarni (23:48.098)

Let me ask you, because you were describing the contest you won many moons ago—did you develop that storytelling aspect slowly, or was it always natural to you?

Zemill (24:05.807)

I want to say that it is just a part of the gift; it's natural. It comes from up there—it comes from the Creator, flows this way, and then I just have to let it out. Now, sometimes I can mess it up. I always say that I'm just a solo instrument commissioned to inspire and deliver spirited thought. When you allow the thought to come from its origin and don't put too much of yourself in it... yes, use your experience, but when a natural thought comes, you have to let it flow as it is. You can mess it up by putting too much of yourself into a thought that originated from the Creator, taking away from what it actually is.

Being a messenger has been a natural thing, and I've been blessed and smart enough to understand that it's not all me. As long as I understand that, I try not to get in the way.

Sandeep Kulkarni (25:37.32)

Interesting, very interesting. I can just imagine how naturally it must flow, especially hearing the poem you just recited. I would love to watch you perform or be there someday when you're talking to an audience.

Zemill (26:00.433)

You know, sometimes you get in a zone. Sometimes I do freestyle, and this may sound crazy, but especially on an open mic or during a show, it just happens. We just finished a show where we had over 300 people and sold it out in about three and a half weeks. We had Joe McCray on keys, Fulton Turnage, Will Brooks, and J'Keefa Jones—an incredible crew in the band.

Sometimes we just float. I'll say, "Let's just go here, give me something to start," and they'll do something and I'll just take off. I may not know exactly what I'm going to say until I actually stand in front of the mic. It's challenging, but it's exhilarating. Sometimes it just flows, man, and you just go with it.

Suraaj Parab (27:13.982)

Talking about your independent artist journey—you have built this completely as an independent artist, releasing books, albums, and live experiences on your own terms. What has that journey taught you about ownership and staying true to your voice?

Zemill (27:39.107)

Man, yeah, another good one. The biggest thing it has taught me... I was once at an ASCAP convention in LA on Sunset Boulevard, and I'll never forget it. One of the CEOs of a very popular magazine talked about music today, how it's changing with streaming, and how there's not the same money in albums anymore.

Being an independent artist teaches you that you control your own destiny. You control your own worth, and nobody can tell you what you're worth. You make your music, you come and go, and you perform on your own terms.

Now, the downside is that when you have a label or a machine behind you, it's much easier because they have marketing teams and capital. As an independent, you're doing it all on your own, from marketing to producing, which is really challenging. But at the end of the day, I would rather do it that way and stay true to who I am than to owe someone or sell myself just for a dollar. That's no knock or shade on people who are with labels—whatever their reason, that's their path.

For me, I'm at a point in my life where I didn't start professionally until I was already "silver" hair-wise. For a young person coming up who has the opportunity to go make that money, you go make that bread however you need to make it. But for me, being independent has taught me that you have to hustle more and work harder. Because I understand that, I remain true to who Zemill is and what Zemill's Poe-Jazz Experience stands for. I do it on my own terms.

Suraaj Parab (30:02.174)

That's really interesting and important. Staying true to yourself and finding your own natural calling is what makes us unique, right?

Zemill (30:12.785)

Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, I'd actually like to ask you guys a question. What got you started in what you're doing right now? How did we get to this space between the two of you? I'm going to turn the tables for a split second. I'd like to know who I'm talking to!

Sandeep Kulkarni (30:27.566)

We can tell you for sure! Suraaj and I have known each other for quite some time now, since about 2013 or 2014. We are both musicians; I'm a singer-songwriter and he is an amazing composer, multi-instrumentalist, and musician. Long story short, he had a lot of songs, and I was singing in a lot of different genres and languages. I did a cover song, he played bass on it, and we really connected.

We were just doing covers for fun initially, but he was working on an album and said, "I really love your voice and your style, I want you to sing on my songs." His genre was so different from what I had done. I write too, so I wrote poetry and lyrics to his songs, and we did two EPs. We even did songs in different languages like Spanish, an Italian opera piece, and the rest in English.

He also plays in my recording project based here in LA, which is an Indian rock band. He's played bass and piano on a couple of songs, so that's how we've stayed connected. We think very similarly and are both open to different art forms and sounds from all over the world—from Indian music to rock, metal, Arabic, Spanish, or Latin music. It just needs to sound good to the ears.

Eventually, we were talking about Grammy voting members and connecting with other artists, and we thought, "It would be nice to connect with all these folks, hear their stories, and build a community." It's a small world and a community at the end of the day. So, it's about community building. Sorry, Suraaj, I said everything!

Zemill (33:22.937)

No, no, no, I wanted to know! It's important. We're talking about that connection, and it's a small world—you never know, I may do something and say, "Hey guys, take a listen to this." I totally agree with you that we are a community and that musicians and writers share a kindred spirit.

Sandeep Kulkarni (33:58.176)

Absolutely, it's about supporting each other and learning from each other. Just by talking to people, we've learned so much about their paths, how they started, how they made their first record, and what they are going through. We've talked to singers, composers, guitar players, mixing/mastering engineers, and even a photographer. We aren't restricting it to just musicians; we have an animation and VFX director coming on soon too. It's anything and everything related to art where we can have a meaningful dialogue.

Zemill (34:55.749)

Yeah, well, I always try to credit the people I know who are phenomenal at what they do. Dr. Julius (Dr. J) is in LA and masters our music; he's associated with the Grammys and is a phenomenal talent. Darryl Good does my mixing, he's an incredible mixing engineer. And Joe McCray, like I said, is just "beast mode" on arrangements. I've been blessed to be around these kinds of people and learn from them because they share their talent. That's what makes it worth it.

Suraaj Parab (35:46.483)

Exactly, the whole goal was to not restrict it. In the end, whether it's a pottery maker, an architect, or a musician, everyone is creating art and following their own inner calling. We are trying to talk to people who follow their own inner voice, just like you, Mr. Zemill.

Zemill (36:08.517)

Yeah. Again, I can't tell you enough how honored I am to be here and how thankful I am for the questions. You guys did an incredible job on your homework and truly understand the depth behind the questions. I've done a lot of interviews, and it's always an honor, but it's even more special when the interviewers have done background research and the questions have real depth. That's a beautiful thing.

Sandeep Kulkarni (36:49.006)

Thank you, that's really touching. We try our best. We are both busy—Suraaj is busy with music, and I work in tech, so I'm busy all day long. You know how it is.

Zemill (37:04.272)

Yeah, tech, AI, and all of that stuff.

Sandeep Kulkarni (37:08.756)

That's it! I actually just got handed a big AI project at work right before this call. My boss told me, "You're going to head the whole thing now," and I was like, "Okay, thank you!"

Zemill (37:24.785)

We were just experimenting with AI in music. I looked at a couple of apps to see how it could assist because I come up with the melodies in my head when I write, but Joe does the actual arrangements and instrumentation. When I hear musical notes, I hear words, and when I write, I hear melodies. I hum them into my phone's microphone as a voice memo and send it to him, and he makes a song out of it.

What AI has allowed me to do is transfer the idea into a better temporary form than just a raw phone memo with me tapping a basic beat. When I send the idea to him now, it's a more fully realized baseline concept that we can then take to another level.

Sandeep Kulkarni (38:35.298)

That's pretty cool. There are definitely pluses to it. Moving on to legacy and what remains: when people leave a Zemill performance or finish one of your books, what do you hope stays with them the most? Is it the groove, the message, the healing, or something else entirely?

Zemill (38:58.457)

All of the above. I'll give you a perfect example from our last show. I am a colon cancer survivor, and I always include a segment in my shows to recognize cancer patients and survivors. I have them stand up so we can applaud them. If someone has lost a loved one, I ask them to stand.

In this last show, I also said, "If you're unhappy or concerned with what's going on in this country right now, will you stand up?" Everyone in the room stood up. I have an incredible photo of the entire room standing. In that moment, I asked everyone to turn to the person next to them and say, "You are not alone." We all have feelings, we are all going through things, and it is so important for us to lean on and talk to each other.

When you leave a Zemill's Poe-Jazz Experience show, I want your heart to feel warm with love and excitement. There will be parts where we dive into social consciousness and what's happening in the streets—it's Afrocentric—but if I have not moved you to feel better about yourself, your life, and your direction, then I have accomplished nothing.

During that moment at the show, I told them, "I spoke with love today, and love told me to tell you something." They asked, "What love?" and I said, "I had a conversation with Love itself. Love said, 'I have endured all things. I believe in all things.' Then love told me to tell you, 'I hope with all things.'"

When you leave my show, you get it all: the music, the message, the word, the family, the camaraderie, and the togetherness. It's grown, sexy, mellow, cool, uplifting, and we danced all in one night.

Sandeep Kulkarni (42:09.486)

All in one. That's amazing. What you just described is so powerful. I'm a very visual person, and I was visualizing the audience, the connection, and the togetherness. Hats off to you.

Zemill (42:35.461)

Thank you, thank you. One more thing about that show—the photographer caught a beautiful picture that I'll have to send you. A young lady reached out and grabbed her husband's hand right when he became emotional about what was being said. The camera caught that exact split second. It looks like a Hallmark card or an AI-generated image because it's so perfect, but it was completely real. It was an amazing photo.

Suraaj Parab (43:38.396)

That's really amazing. Zemill, thank you so much for spending this time with us. We really appreciate the intention, maturity, and soul you bring to your work and the way you have built your own lane with Poe-Jazz.

Zemill (43:54.779)

Thank you so very much for having me. For those who want to know more, they can find me at @ZemilesPojazz on Instagram and TikTok, Zemill's Poe-Jazz Experience on YouTube and Facebook, and Attention Required for all things Zemill. Thank you again for having me this evening; it's been a great conversation.

Sandeep Kulkarni (44:15.938)

It was an honor. This conversation is a beautiful reminder that art can be both a groove and a guide—something that moves us and something that wakes us up. Thank you so much.

Suraaj Parab (44:32.734)

And to everyone listening, thank you so much for being here with us. As Zemill said, please go check out his website, check out his Instagram, and listen to his work on all major streaming platforms like Apple Music, Amazon, and Spotify. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone, and we will see you in the next episode of Artist Conversation.